A sourceblog about LYM, LaRouche Youth Movement and Lyndon LaRouche. Twinblog to:
Thursday, April 9, 2009
USA: Discussion on Factnet initiated by ex. member "Donebeenaround"
Donebeenaround Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 3:17 pm:
I’ve read all the posts thus far; I too spent a few years in the organization and have very mixed feelings about it. First, for anyone to say that Lyn is a non-entity or has negligible political/philosophical effect amounts to pure innocence of fact, or to plain denial. Ideas can resonate. The LYM have been briefing and prodding Kucinich for years now. They obviously moved him to take action/bleat his rant. One might politely ask: how many world parliamentary bodies have YOU addressed; how many world figures have endorsed YOUR candidacies? Lyn’s effect is there, small perhaps but persistent. I got in after becoming inspired to assay a World Historical identity, yeah I know, but really, Lyn amd the org were cranking out a lot of intriguing theory in the 90’s especially, that’s what really brought me in: e.g. reviving Schiller’s Universal History angle and his “species consciousness;” Lyn’s insistence on physical economy/science-driver economy/infrastructure development; the push to comprehend a monster genius like Gauss, and how he determined asteroid orbits; man as capax dei and imago viva dei; the papers on God and metaphor, Substance of Morality, Jesus Christ and Civilization, America’s Manifest Destiny, and such. Sort of an ecumenical theism it seemed, at least on the surface, but with also a lot of depth. It looked like Lyn had modulated up from the early silly stuff, towards a JQ Adams type of American System theorist and figure. Anyway I found the theory intriguing in a provisional way at least and joined up, I had theoretic issues but I put them on hold—at least somebody was trying to do something to address the historical question generally.
I wised up to my future as a pack mule for the LYM, saw other unpleasant aspects, and phased out. But I’ve often thought that for all his faults Lyn is sort of a Least Imperfect Vehicle: clearly there are sillinesses and tawdrinesses, but at least he TRIED, to enunciate and work towards SOME sort of programmatic theory of a future directionality for the human race, with the New Bretton Woods initiative, which has some definite international resonance; his vision of 5,000 next-generation fission plants for the world, fusion-torch technology, &c.
There does seem to be a growing discussion, even amongst some mainstream commentators, of a looming financial meltdown; and the US is in any case headed towards fiscal train wreck as the Boomers age, though Lyn doesn’t use this formulation to describe “the crisis”—which admittedly is perpetual in Lyn’s rhetoric, but then again, how ARE we going to move forward out of the mess the world is in? Where are we going; how are we to develop the sort of power needed to e.g, protect the planet from asteroids. The cynically disillusioned herein may say nay thanks, but are you offering up anything, at all, beyond tactical kindnesses? Maybe tactical kindnesses are the most we can do; maybe there is no solution; but people have a right to spend their life’s coin as they wish. History isn’t stagnant and I give Lyn the right to proffer up ideas and programs, and I give people the right to associate as they wish, to have a say and try to change history by action, even if I find silly or disagree vehemently with much of it.
Indeed I find it troubling politically: the anti-Israel animus, on display of late especially in the venomous screeds of Dean Andromidas, and in the insinuations Lyn has publicized to the Muslim world that Israel was behind 9-11; the utter ignorance of the fact that the Koran itself is the source of much Islamic radicalism; the bizarre charge that Galileo and Newton were reactionary puppets of the Venetians; the fatuous Bush=Hitler/ “Chief Justice Roberts is a Nazi!” rants, &c.
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 3:18 pm:
I.e., Lyn is quite a mixed bag. It’s terribly sad what happened to Ken. Fidelio was a beautiful magazine in every sense; it seemed proof to me that there was something bigger going on with Lyn than mail fraud. Maybe if Lyn had been less of an egomaniac; maybe had the NC’s flown coach instead of first-class; maybe had Lyn and Helga lived more frugally; maybe then the members, and the German leadership, could have had some more comforts and securities; but if you choose to orbit a sun, you may get burned. I couldn’t take the heat, but those who have given their lives for the glorious cause of a New Renaissance, for a new monetary system, for a vision of a future—and for its enunciator—well, they have given their lives for it... And I will say this also: ‘though I certainly didn’t initiate it I helped to get the LYM thing started. Before I got out I was personally involved in organizing some of the cadre schools. The idea that LaRouche’s people beat poor Jeremiah to death appears to me so utterly ludicrous as to lend credence to a “Get LaRouche” hypothesis. The cadre schools focus on Lyn’s obscure musical aesthetics, on analyzing the catenary curve and various arithmetic/geometric means, and on “becoming world historical.” A blame-Israel-first component seems fundamental to Lyn’s system, but the idea of beating up potential recruits, would be a laughable allegation if it weren’t so weighty in implication. Unless there are/were some really, really bad goons on the Euro staff, which would be a huge surprise to me, I say the explanation lies elsewhere. Why does Dennis King call Helga Lyn’s “dog-wife”? Anyone can say Lyn is the merest shyster, charlatan, and con-artist, but isn’t the reality more complex? He may indeed be or have been a con artist, but I think he’s also on to some important dimensions of history in some provisional, adumbrative way. Thus my ambivalence.
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 5:05 pm:
Donebeenaround makes several interesting points, and as I'm sure he would agree, if he read the posts, there were many ideas that originally drew most of us here on the list and that would seem to have some validity, if only they weren't expressed in his consistent World Will End if We don't implement this or that!!! rhetoric. Most members would always say, well, we could get people behind the issue of Fusion, or debt relief in the third world, etc., but Lyn would always have to insist on dragging in some other issue that would cause the person who might be sympathetic on one issue or another away. In other words you have to subscribe to the purity of all his views however ridiculous or illiterate they may be.
The so=called leaders I'm not sure about. The ones in Russia seem to be downright reactionary nationalist restorationists and he seems to have no problem with the authoritarian policies of Putin. In fact, Lyn has no problem with any authoritarian leader per se. Witness his support for the genocidal Sudan gov't, his support for Noriega, Peron, the Saudi gov't, etc. Democracy is not a strongpoint for Lyn, and no matter how valid some of his views may seem they reflect the worst aspects of Plato's philosopher king ideal. To this day, I still support the idea of fusion research, although again Lyn treated it as a catchall, and I have no idea whether the fusion torch will be around in less than another 50 years.
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:42 pm:
I too was ambivalent for many years after leaving - until I began to reflect on the quality of social life in the LC. Let's assume that everything Lyn says about public and cultural matters is true. Anyone who was an actual Labor Committee member for any length of time must acknowledge that the way he or she was treated was entirely incongruent with the fine ideals everyone thought they were fighting for. In addition, every such member, past or present, knows that lying was a regular, daily practice. For example, everyone has had the experience of being told that we needed money for a particular mobilization, e.g. "getting Lyn on TV." Then we would go out and raise money in the name of one of the front groups, lying that we were fighting to promote nuclear energy or to work in the tradition of FDR when in fact the funds were going into an LC slush fund. So, at the level of one's own experience, one must be forgiven for actually concluding that we were not as virtuous as we thought ourselves, believing, as we did, that the ends justify the means. This however is not an expression of humanism, but represents a culture of criminality. At the second level, of course, is the fact (e.g., see my remarks above on his statements about Einstein) that Lyn lies in his purportedly intellectual work (when he makes any sense at all.) But that realization comes later, as I have found. For now, just interrogate your own actual experience working the phones twelve hours a day, or attending a card-table shrine seven days a week, or sidling slavishly up to people in authority: the ambivalence will begin to vanish.
One further point: often supporters will claim, well, at least Lyn is doing "something." Look around you: many people are doing "something" in this world to make it a better place. They just do it in a much less megalomaniacal way than Lyn and his acolytes. I would further aver: hawking magazines or playing around with recreational mathematics does not change the world. Becoming a good teacher or a doctor does.
Stay in school, kids.
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 2:52 pm:
good polemic, Donebeenaround. You summarize the delusions which attracted many of us to the "academy" LHL was allegedly offering; but your list has no content, the purported "academy" but was more a hall of smoke and mirrors as anyone who starts studying something in earnest discovers. Let me ask you: did you study science in college? beyond college? What was the quality of your 'cadres'? because from what we've seen on Youtube and other places, they look like kids who are barely literate.
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 1:48 am:
Dbaround, your posts to me at least show why Lyn is more of a calcualating manipulator in a cult of persoanlity than ever. What bothers me is how people who have good hearts and wish to do good have been recruited under their morals and were run around by Lyn's morals. You did what you did at the time thought was a legitmate purpose. You and everyone else who joined had ideals and had basic building blocks of virtue which existed before the LC and exist after the LC. What is often the case is that many former memebrs have done things of incredible magnitude despite what was done to them and despite losing years under Lyn's cult of personality.
What happens is that as you enter the world of Lyn you forgoe a connection to everything which is available to you and become more insular as time goes on. This then becomes a transformation where nothing you talk or think about is said without a Larouche prefix attached to it.
This no accident and I will use my experience to show you how it evolved.
My first contact with the LC was in the 1970s while in High School. I was a teenager who was not sure of a lot of things but was sure that a lot of things needed to change. What I am hearing from the LC is a call for fusion power and economic growth and conern with starvation in developing countries. I was interested in this and found that the people I spoke to were a little odd, but were not dope heads and liked classical music. To me, this was an ideal local club to work with and I soon found out that they were an international organisation. Wow! I now had what I thought was an opportunity to change the world and do it in way that would be done soon. The LC lit back then was titled "Strategy for Socialism" and the paper called "New Solidarity" seemed like a crazy tabloid that followed the Rockefellers instead of Elvis and Bigfoot each week. In my mind, I was going to college and figured that I could just work with the Nuclear p ower stuff as we had a front group called the Fusion Energy Foundation. In the local rundown office were more shabbily dressed people and I joked that I wanted to make sure this was not a cult and looked for pictures of Larouche who was then calling himself "Lyn Marcus" on the walls.
On the walls were maps of the area and things like plant gate shift changes and another room called "The War room". For a teenager like me, this seemed serious. I saw what I wanted to see and read what I wanted to read. The papers and magazines had crazy stories about CIA/MI5brainwashing members like Chris White. Wild stories about forced relocation of workers for slave labor and how Rockefeller was ruling the world. I shoudl have ran away as fast as I could, but, I wanted a reason why the world was the way it is and the LC gave me every reason and would and could explain anything in the world with their methodology.
Ok, it seems nuts, but at the time, it seemed like the only thing which wanted to take on everything. So I figured since no one else had so many targets , than maybe this is the way to get things done. Little did I know how things work in changing people. When I thought of cult I thought of the traditional Moon or Krishna cult. Decades after i left the LC I began to read up on cults and found that the whole LC and Larouche was basically follwoing a standard cult blue print with a political twist.
In the LC and in Larouche World you have to have basic principals to formulate your thinking. You need to have not just a problem, but massive and neverending problems of apoclyptic proportions. problems so big that they are not just problems, but things which will end humanity. The endless catastrophe you as a member face is to change you, not for you to change it. You may think that you are , but in a cult of personality, only a messianic figure, a special person who is above all of the members like a Moon or Larouche or any other figure knows what to do and needs you to do it.
You also need to empty your heart of compassion and fill it up with hate. Pure hate of everything which is not supporting you in your endless end of the world battle to save humanity. Now, it is not enough to support nuclear power. You now demand it. you now say that unless it is developed, humanity will die. Now the people who oppose nuclear power are not people who are concerned with engineering concerns, taxpayer concerns, security concerns but part of the conspiracy to kill off the human race of excess people. Lyn will provide you with an encyclopedia of names and orgs and foundations who are part of this. Now you are at the point where if someone talks about being concerned about fresh air and water and reducing toxic waste, they are an enemy of the human race and your enemy.
I can go to almost any subject the LC and Lyn writes about and it will end up that way. Even with this, people in the FEF had some respect as they had degrees and did no talk like maniacs. they had a life where they could interview people, write articles and produce a magazine that did not look half bad.
For Lyn, it was real bad. It was bad because in a cult of personality, Lyn is the focus, nothing else. So in the early 1980s, Lyn issued a memo which made clear that unless your activity involved him, it was not allowed. The way it was worded was very clever in that it demanded that persuing the Larouche presidency was the only thing and every front group and publication had to support that.
You liked the Fidelio magazine. Ever wonder why it was not mailed out and promoted? Ken Kronberg created that and tried to make it something which was not crazy. There are reports of endless tirades by Lyn against Ken for trying to do that. The blood vessels would pop in Lyn's head as he denounced Ken as a boomer over and over and then ended it with a demand for endless printing with out a single thought of how to pay for this. Oh, let me correct that. .There was a single thought , it was called have someone else run up a debt for supplies and have the members do it for nothing.
Don't be scared of this political scam artist. I saw him cower like a baby on the Morton Downey show when he was confronted with his own words about Jews and others. He babbled "shut up, shut up" . The people there were not naive college kids who were intimidated by a 6 foot 5 father figure to members who often had father issues.
When I came to the National office I figured out somethiungs and was told a lot by people who were leaving. In every case, a member who had a one on one meeting with Lyn dropped out the next day or so as they realised Lyn was bonkers. The cult master has no clothes folks. His reading is basically done by looking at the cover, jackets a chapter and then , now this is important, a summary by the staff. In NYC we had a dozens of people who knew a lot of things and did research. A guy named Peter Rush did a prioject where he took as many papers done by members and indexed them in a library of sorts. What caem of that was an embarassment of sorts. it seemed that if you looked at any of Lyn's writings you figure out the formula. You take a subject of current politcal value like Ted Kennedy. You then link him to what ever is the main fundraising issue such as a KGB/Russian takeover of the world. you now take one of those research papers and find the key thesis and link it to that. So the end is a centerfold article where about two paragraphs mention Kennedy, more pragraphs mention some historical situation adn then you fill it up with the standard 5000 years of conspiracy, throw in Aristotle and then some new tid bit the poor LCer found and declare it a magnum opus that needs to be put out in a pamphlet or book for the masses. Read enough of this and you too can write this stuff for the LC. The poor LCer who did the long hours of work in the library does not even get a footnote and ends up cooing for Lyn's wink instead of yelling that his or her hard work was stolen by this charlatan. The standard MO for us is that the phone organiser would make some issue sound reasonable so he would not be hung up. Once you snet them some of our lit, forget it. We would try hard to NOT have Lyn do meetings with our contacts because of how they would end up with Lyn demanding that they bankroll him or some crazy statement about the Queen of England or such.
In most cases when the phone calls were no longer being returned, Lyn would write about how so and so was harrassed by Henry Kissinger or the KGB to not work with him.
For myself I can tell you that I read about fusion power years before I met the LC. I read about plasma torches years before I met the LC and did a science project in the 5th grade about this. You can look up the GE corporation and see a division they have in joint projects with other companies. I read about maglevs years before the LC made it somethng to impress you with. What is important is that the issues or the technology exist without a cult and get produced without a cult. When I was in I wanted to be part of an org which wanted to support somethiung called the McKormick bill for Fusion funding in congress. Years later we were told that to get fusion power we need to have 20 airports manned with card table shrines each day with aquota of 300 dollars per table .
Star Trek existed way before Lyn's cult and has fostered more dreamers and creators than a gazillion Fusion and 21st Century magazines. We used to have a little science hand out called "Young Scientist". When we tried to make it a non Lyn publication and get class rooms to use it. Unless Lyn was in it, forget it. Heaven help an LC couple who wanted to rasie their kids as young scientists. Lyn demanded that if your kids survived the abortion pressure, than he wants those kids manning card table shrines for HIM.
Lyn wants YOU to raise money for HIM to promote mars. Former member Bob Zubrin runs an organisation called "The Mars Society" which does real work. His books are best sellers and not given a quota of cheap newsprint copies to be given away. Zubrin has and is seen almost monthly in every science journal there is, on TV news shows, TV specials and has been invited to the White House to be awarded for his work. He holds several patents on rocket science.
Lyn waits for Henry Kissinger to come out of a men's room at a White House Press club dinner to have his photo taken with him while mesmerising him with his delusions. Kissinger probably thought the Foe gras was contaminated and made him ill.
There is nothing new being told to the LYM or your self that we have not heard Lyn do before. The speeches you heard when you joined are the saem ones we heard except with a new cast of characters. The phrases are the same.
Us Jimmy Carter worse than Hitler
You Al Gore Worse than Hitler.
Us Impeach Carter
You Impeach Cheney
Us Give money to stop KGB
You Give money to stop Synarchists
US Methadone pushed by Nuremburg Criminals
You Video games pushed by Nuremburg Criminal.
Us The world economy is going to crash.
You The world economy is going to crash.
US We are in a depression.
You We are in a depression of the physical economy.
Us Rockefeller runs the world
You British and the Jews run the world.
Most of us were in when the LC made the transformation from Rocky to the British and the Jews running the world. Most of us left.
Us 3 Mile Island was a hoax to eliminate people.
You Global warming is a hoax to eliminate people.
Us Chris White brainwashing done by Rock to stop the ICLC from taking power. Hoax by Lyn.
You Duggan death, hoax done by Cheney to stop LYM from taking power.
Us David Rockefeller and his family run the world and all that is evil.
You Cheney and his wife run the world and all that is is evil.
Us Leesburg Real Estate collapse will bankrupt the banks when people can not pay the notes.
You Lyn does not pay the notes on LC real estate to the banks and our people collapse.
Us Supporting Solar power is stupid and won't work.
You Supporting solar power is evil and will kill off humanity
Let me give you a little clue of how crazy the LC/LYM is . One of our members in the LA region left in the 1990s. The only thing I think he knew to work with when he left was roofing. He started his own business in LA and began to grow as a roofing contractor. Later, he developed a roof system which used new solar panels for power generation. His company is now the leading developer of solar panel roofs and has been recognised in many articles and in the Wall Street Journal. Business which use his system .The buildings which he installed this can now sell power back to the grid which feeds the Glendale LYM office for LYM jabronis to HATE solar power.
Lyn has a new spin now since we have shown his broken record briefings to the yutes. Today the line is that he tells yutes that he is not predicting a crash but is trying to prevent it.! There is nothing new to say hear. All of us were pretty young when we joined and wised up later. Most people restarted their lives and have done incredible things. In the LC you are told over and over that no one is doing anything. You are alone, trying to save the planet from enemies who do not know they are enemies.
Debt has always been an issue in the developing world. Enroll in any third world study class in college in the 1960s and it was a big part of the curriculum. Lyn is the only one who declared a debt moratorium . he did it aganist the members and and supporters by borrowing money and not paying it back.
Lyn declared a debt moratorium on PMR and see what happened there. Bono of U2 has been more successfull in promoting debt relief and he only wants you to buy their records, shirts and conccert tickets instead of joining a Bono cult.
I posted my "moral resume" here last year. As a free person I go to meet with my congressmen, elected officials like the mayor and others, the previous governor and present governor of my state and discuss issues like child care, energy and health policy. This is not some big deal if you call up , make an appointment and discuss this with them in either their office or open meetings. no one is cutting off my mike and rolling their eyes when I speak. I do not litter their offices with cult crazed fanzines and instead contribute to promoting bills and providing input on how it may effect families in their district.
Yes, things are better in many places where I choose to help, not hate.
If you want to see what 35 years of the LC and worshipping Lyn will get you, take a look at this video.
After the intro you will see the LA office NC named Phil Rubinstein give a briefing to a few people in a shabby office just like the one I entered 3 decades ago with mismatched chairs and a stink in it. This particular NC is notorious for doing anything Lyn demanded when it comes to sacrificing members to feed a Club Ibykus party. The temper on his part is probably justifiable to a degree. I think he dropped out of John Hopkins at age 17 to join the LC. He was brilliant enough to be considered for a Rabbincal education, but not smart enough to recognise that he was selling copies of the Dope Inc book with The Protocals of The Elders of Zion as a chapter. He saw all of his Jewish friends leave in disgust when Lyn and Security were circulating the infamous "Jew Jokes" in the LC. He accepted Lyn as his saviour when Lyn began issuing his Holocaust Gospels in New Solidarity in the late 1970s.
Each briefing you hear on the LYM web site starts off with how we are building a movement. After 35 years he has seen almost everyone he knows drop out or die and still fears facing the fact that all his posturing, chair throwing don't mean a thing. He can read in the briefing a few days ago where Lyn says LA is a problem. . Based on the track record of Lyn, the boomer pogrom is heading West.
I am a former member of the LaRouchemovement (ICLC) in Europe. I was active from 1988 to 2003/2004. Here I write to expose the totalitarian political cult that Lyndon LaRouche has created. I choose to call LaRouche the Lycurgus of this century, to show his real nature!
My email is americanlycurgus (at) gmail.com. If you want to remain anonymous, use an anonýmous mailservice like: www.sendanonymousemail.net.