Sunday, May 24, 2009

USA, 2007: Ex. LYM Akka and jmp87 about LYM.

Akka: Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 6:15 am:

Hi everyone, I used to be a member of the LYM but dropped out. I've been reading your posts and have recognized a lot of the problems I encountered myself; especially the way the boomers are treated, and off course as, jmp8 points out, the horriffic living conditions. I was only member for about 6 months, but still I've used a lot of time afterwards to process all the new impressions and ideas I was exposed to. Like jmp87 I'm still inspired by some of the core ideas, and also the vigor and virtue og some of the youth members. On the other hand I totally recognize the cultish feats that seem to permeate the org. Contrastng the passionated intellectuals, wanting to make a difference, I saw deeply emotionally disturbed kids´who were more or less clinging on to LHL's fatherly figure, and would cite him all the time without actually thinking critically on their own; 'Lyn says this, Lyn says that' therefore its right. The reason I left was that I, first of all, was unsure of the truthfulness of the theories I was presented to - here especially how history was presented, which I found contained a lot of contradictions.

Secondly I kept asking myself: what are the long term effects of this movement on its members? And when I saw these phone teams, composed of middleaged people, calling all day, 6 days a week, I could vividly imagine how these people once were young and full of good pretensions, like the youths, but now were stuck in this obvious miserable condition - a lot of them just looked like they were worn out. This was not the principle of 'the general welfare', promoted in the campaigners.

Although I've left, I still have some contact with the movement, mainly because im trying to figure it out. How it works - and if I should support it or not. You've all been through it, and it obviously has left som deep scars in your souls. I myself am very affected by the experience and I think about it daily; It really was a turning point in my life, and In many ways I felt very connected to what it means being a human being - as opposed to the extremely superficial reality of popular youth culture today, of which I was a part. This sense og humanity is something I still cherish and is grateful for. The most fundamental discovery I made, was that life is not some relativistic soup, were one opinion was as good as any other - there is such a thing as quality, were one way of thinking supersedes another because it's based on truer axioms than the other; implicitly - that truth exists and is attainable by humans; if they seek it rigoriously and open-minded. For me, this was a wonderful idea that actually gave my existentialistic life, some sort of direction and ground for optimism. This is a grand paradox for me: how can something that brought me insights and true joy, also seem like a freakish cult that is destroying lives? XLC4life mentioned an ex-member, Zubrin I believe, who apparently has specialized in Mars or something. Didn't he get something good out of the org? I mean, is the organisation really bad in all respects, and doesn't it also depend on the individual that joins?

Excuse my english - or at least the grammar - its not my main language!


borisbad: Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 9:41 am:

Akka, I can see from your post that you went through quite a transformation and fortunately you managed to retain your sanity being in for less than a year. Clearly, people join an organization like the LYM because they are dissatisfied with what they see around them and would like to see changes. And there is certainly much to be said about the banality of much of popular culture both today and in our day (the boomer generation). But then again popular culture was never equated with higher culture even Lyn likes to pretend that in the old days everybody studied Shakespeare, Goethe, Schiller, etc.

The thing about Lyn is how he cloaks himself in the authority of others who actually have made great contributions whether in arts, politics, math, etc. Then he construes vast machinations to show how the bad guys (whether called Aristotelians, Synarchists, Babylonian whore supporters, dionysians or what ever) are trying to stop whatever machination Lyn is perpetuating at the moment. The key thing is that you retained a sense of independent thought that made you look a little bit behind the shadows in the cave. When people give into anything uncritically, then they get trapped into cult thought. For example, Lyn likes to praise Plato, but ask if he really wants anyone in the organization examining the apriori assumptions behind his axioms and negate them which is the method behind Plato's dialogues.

I would agree that getting out of the organization doesn't mean you have to just become apolitical or uninvolved in seeking change. I think there are many activities and groups that may espouse ideals at least partially in line of what you are looking for that don't demand the total sacrifice of your identity.

jmp87Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 1:20 pm:

Akka, In regards to being political after the movement it's absolutely possible. More than possible. Right now I'm meeting With Henry Waxman, The representative of Los Angeles County to discuss The possibility of constructing a maglev train from San Diego to Seattle. I also wrote a pamphlet up in Humboldt demanding the impeachment of Cheney and citing the violations on why he must leave. I wrote numerous other pamphlets as well talking about different discussions.

It's been a year since I've left the movement and am now friendly with almost all the members. Whether its a cult or not is a tough question because there are things that they do that are legitimate. 2 of their members got elected to the democratic party recently and many of their ideas are quite sound. For example, I've always known that Al gore is a Genocidal beast ever since I've read what he states in his book, Earth in a Balance that "the populations of human beings must be reduced to 2 billion" Now if it was just a mad man stating that then who cares but this guy is trying to enact policies based on this. The most densely populated areas are in Europe yet Gore doesn't want to kill Europeans. He just wants to kill Africans and Latin Americans. the only movement that I can think of that is really preventing gore from winning this fight are the Larouchies. There is no such thing as overpopulation. That is a fascist policy that was constantly preached by Hitler himself with the "Liebenstraum" policies. Meaning living space for the Aryans. AL Gore wants to kill all the Africans and other ethnicities that aren't caucasian because hes a sick •••••••. It's impossible to explain insanity.

Now, even though they do extraordinary political and philosophical work, does not excuse the way they treat the older members and and also the living conditions. They could easily increase the budget no more than just possibly 500 bucks per office and all the members could eat comfortably. I mean after all, they always over spend on pamphlets anyway and we would always get frustrated when we would have January pamphlets still in the office while its October. Thus we overspend on the pamphlets and don't spend enough on the food.

I would say akka is Go back to school but bring the best of Larouche's Ideas with you. For example, I had a lot of fun talking about Riemaninan Geometry with a math Professor at the college I attend ,Humboldt State University. Both me and the professor had a blast discussing the ideas. I think it was because I was making the discoveries on my own rather than just being fed it.

I live in Los Angeles Right now until Most likely late august. What local where you in. I was in the L.A Local


Akka: posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 4:47 pm:
Hi, Thanks for the advice. I am studying at uni right now, and have been doing it for some time. In the org there is a conscious idea of how university is basically brainwashing. This, though is certainly not true...I mean off course, there are nutty proffessors and ignorant kids and all that, but the great thing is you can study all the stuff you find interesting - at least in universiy I attend. You'll also be getting a degree you can use later, and, like you said jmp, still be political and make a difference for the better.

It is outright silly, in my opinion, not to get an education if you have the chance, even if you sympathize with LYM. You don't know whats gonna happen in the future, and being financially dependent on an organisation is very unwise, as I can understand from this board some of the boomers would probably leave if not they were not dependent financially on the movement, but also the social dependence has a say. Getting an education gives you a firm social network outside the movement AND keeps your family from worrying too much - plus it gives you an ability to se things from more than one perspective. A thing I think Schiller was right on, was when he wrote that one should be a part of society but not a product of it. There is no reason in isolating oneself. Just a little subjective advice.

What you said, Borisbad, is actually what I couldn't swallow; namely, this big hostile overtake of the world by various, and seemingly changing fations. Its not that I don't think conspiracies don't exist, I mean, anyone whose been into politics, knows how agreements and stuff like that gets into place, there is a lot more than meets the eye. But from what I can gather from you guys, meaning the older ex-members, is that LHL has been swithching to and fro all through his career. You say he started out as a trotskyist and was part of this leninist group up until the mid sixties, where he was pushing marxist theories - which at the time probably was popular among the youths - some of you guys joined because of those ideas perhaps. One thing I'd like to know, is whether or not the economic program he was proposing then, is similar to what he thinks now, in terms of more investment in longterm infrastructual prjoects, and a new bretton woods and those kinds o things or was it more like a communistic scheduled economy of sorts?

Another thing I find striking is this idea of antisemitism - which is what freaked my friends and family out. I must admit, I haven't met any racisme what so ever in the movement when I was there, quite the contrary, actually- you know - nobody there talked about race or religions in a judgemental manner - it was the quality of your mind, and spirit which was focused on, which is quite a relief when you come from a materially fixated culture, I might add. It seems to me that there has been a change in that respect, from what you describe with the antisemitism and all that. I couldn't help but notice that you guys were slamming Helga for the 'locust' thing. I don't know anything about the womans background, but I do know that the term 'locust' was actually used by the former SPD finance minister, Müntefering, in his explicit characterisation of the Hedgefunds back in 2005 or so, which he called 'Heuschrecken', meaning 'locusts' in german, and thats when they started using the word in the campaigners; as a reference to Münteferings term.

jmp, I'd rather keep contact on the board for now, and also keep my identity anonymous. No offence ;-)


JMP87. Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 7:20 pm:

I have to agree with akka that i didn't experience any antisemitism either. I've posted some posts about a week ago talking about the topic.


  1. Euro,

    This particular post demonstrates just how "messed-up" one's mind can become after being in the LaRouche cult.

    Reading Fact-net also demonstrates this. There are now just a handful of participants in Fact-net - and their recent fixation on sex is just as disgusting if not worse - than those in the LaR cult.

    If they were to read this comment - they would say - you just don't get our humour - and this is for people who really understand what it's like being within the cult.

    Yup, they are acting just like LaRouchies - only now LaR is the Evil or Crazy one -
    for their focus of LaRouchie behavior.

    The only advice I would give to such people at this point is - please try and recognize when your behavior is the same as it was when you were in the LaR cult - only now you are focusing such behavior on LaR and some of his long-time followers. It's the first step - in breaking out of such behavior. If you don't think you need to break out of such behavior - then I know mentioning the second step will be useless. B4

  2. True in many ways. But they are talking about the cult at Factnet! There is a need to get the facts out!

  3. I definitely agree with getting the facts out.

    Fortunately, the sexual references have stopped on factnet. That gives me less stomach problems.

    I think your suggestion on factnet about how to refer to former members and current members is a very good one.

    I'd like to see more people on factnet - and I do think that the display of "LaRouchian behavior" by former members sort of turns off other people who would otherwise participate.

    What is this "LaRouchian" behavior?:
    1. Really long posts. For crying out loud - some of these posts outdo LaRouche in his "scientific breakthroughs which will of course help in our supposed development". Some factnet members - however - I must commend their efforts for keeping their posts - a paragraph or two - usually plenty of material for thought in a few sentences.
    2. In depth analysis of certain people -
    this is really a carry over of being in the LaRouche cult - as we would always read an in-depth analysis of the political figure of the day - whether it be Aristotle or Obama.
    I have to admit - I find myself getting caught up reading this stuff - but one really has to ask themselves - why am I so interested in this - are other people? (no)
    3. Mocking - it's interesting that some people on fact-net refer to long-time members as "dead-enders" (you might want to practice more empathy here - a trait which the LaRouche cult wipes out in new recruits and apparently is long lasting in some cases) and that the LaR cult themselves also refer to baby boomer members as "dead-enders".
    There are other LaR behaviors - but I'd be violating the first behavior I mentioned if I write much more.

    I promise you - I have been guilty myself - of all I've mentioned - and I'm writing this in hopes of basically helping others.

    I realize - I'll probably get some criticism - and I can't claim all I write is very scintific - or accurate - it comes mostly from my gut.

    You may post this on fact-net - it might generate some good discussion - hopefully.

  4. My response for "Xer" to his/her most recent post.

    I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate all the info you've posted - (but I do believe shorter more concise posts are more useful - you might try breaking long posts into several shorter ones.)

    LaR is being consistent in his views. His Obama with a Hitler mustache is no different than claiming Carter was planning to ship welfare recipients into box cars. So it's not any crazier - it's always been crazy.

    What seems to me - more crazier - and more dangerous - is the pressure being put on new recruits, and people still inside the cult.
    As the recent Holocaust museum shooting shows, LaR at 87 - has a greater chance - of actually ordering his followers to do something violent - and those that remain - actually might be crazy enough to obey.

    Remember, it's the group pressure, deception, and making the person feel he's got that "special stuff" to help save the world that makes someone drop out of college and join the group. No one would ever joined the group on their own - by just reading the material on their own. Though recruitment may, in fact, be decreasing - it really only takes someone being in the wrong place at the wrong time - to get recruited.

    I don't have any "death-wish" for LaR like you. When-ever that happens - it happens - and it isn't necessarily going to make the cult - "go away".

    I think the best we can do, is educate people as to how it is a cult and have empathy for people who are still in - and be able to provide some help to their relatives and friends - who have seen the person they use to know - been turned into a slave for LaR.

  5. I will write a thing about this when I have the time. There is much to comment on this and I agree with much. There is often much bitterness among ex. members. Sometimes I have to make sure that I do not fall into this trap myself...

    The long posts are read by many curretn and ex. members. The factnet is in a sense mainly a forum for them.

    I would have strctured my blog(s) otherwise if it was possible. Some blogs allow you to post a short summary, and the first paragraphs first, then the rest. Blogger does not function like that. That is why almost all the things I write here long!

  6. I'm basically talking about long posts on factnet.

    Regardless - who the posts are for - xmems, mems - but I think we especially need to think of family and friends - who are trying to find info about the cult to help save the ones they know who are getting snared by LaR. Shorter - more concise posts - are much more useful - and more likely to be read.

    There are always exceptions to the rule - HH's
    account of the Australian member's experience certainly qualifies as a post - that you wouldn't want to shorten or break into parts -
    and I hope to see it reprinted in LaRsources

    The subject of Apologies came up. I, fortunately, was not an "abuser" (although we all were in some ways) while in the cult. I was mostly abused. I know , if I would had stayed in - I probably would had become just as abusive as those who abused me. From factnet - I've learned there are still people inside the cult I knew back in the 70's. They were also mostly abused back then - and probably still are to this day. I doubt if LaR and some of his close associates - will ever say they are sorry - for the harm they have caused to so many. But I'd sure like to hear it from the people who recruited and abused me - who are now hopefully out. And I have no problems in saying sorry to the people - I dis-respected or just generally treated negatively - while I was inside the cult. I still to this day, have no idea what has happend to some of the people, which I thought very highly of, and were recruited around the same time as me. B4